QA問答：在美國，一個人怎樣才能擺脫貧困？最窮的是非洲裔美國人，這是真的嗎？
How can a person get out of poverty in the US? Is it true that the poorest pockets are found among African Americans?
譯文簡介
網友：以下是一個人如何擺脫貧困的方法，你可以感謝布魯金斯學會（一個左傾的智庫）和傳統基金會（一個右傾的智庫）。他們得出的結果是一樣的。無論種族、宗教、性別、性取向、性別認同、財富狀況等等，這都是能起到擺脫貧困的作用的。需要以下步驟。找到一份工作，并保持這份工作......
正文翻譯
在美國，一個人怎樣才能擺脫貧困？最窮的是非洲裔美國人，這是真的嗎？
評論翻譯
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Here’s how one can raise themselves out of poverty, and you can thank the Brookings Institute (a left-leaning think tank) and the Heritage Foundation (a right-leaning one). Their results were the same.
This works regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identification, wealth status, etc. It requires steps.
Get employed and maintain employment.
Wait until you are past 21 and married to have kids.
That’s it! The poorest pockets are those who don’t follow those steps.
以下是一個人如何擺脫貧困的方法，你可以感謝布魯金斯學會（一個左傾的智庫）和傳統基金會（一個右傾的智庫）。他們得出的結果是一樣的。
無論種族、宗教、性別、性取向、性別認同、財富狀況等等，這都是能起到擺脫貧困的作用的。需要以下步驟。
找到一份工作，并保持這份工作。
等你過了21歲，結婚生子。
就是這樣！最窮的人是那些不遵循這個步驟的人。
True but the simplification ignores the fact that for members of most of the groups you listed find step one to be very difficult.
但這種簡化的步驟忽略了一個事實，即對于您列出的大多數人來說，找一份工作并保持下去是非常困難的。
That’s not true. Jobs are everywhere and all you have to do to keep them is show up on time and do the job you agreed to when you were hired.
At first, it’s probably not the job you would choose if you had a choice, but that’s irrelevant. You have to get over that and do it anyway. If you do that, you can improve yourself and make progress toward the job you prefer.
并非如此，工作到處都是，你要做的就是準時上班，完成剛入職時同意做的工作。
如果一開始，如果你可以選擇的話，你可能不會選擇這份工作，但這無關緊要。不管怎樣，你都得克服這一點。如果你選擇了這份工作，你就可以提高自己，朝著你喜歡的工作前進。
You’re pretty racist on you Dave? Race is in fact meaningless in this discussion unless you’re so weak-willed that you always want to blame others for your misfortune
你是種族主義者嗎，戴夫？種族在這個討論中實際上是沒有意義的，除非你意志薄弱，總是想把自己的不幸歸咎于別人
Race is irrelevant when applying for a job, in facr, in some places, not being white gives people a leg up due to affirmative action policies. The same can be said or most handicapped people. There are always going to be exceptions.
Potential
Not everyone gets to be an astronaut when they grow up. As a bright-eyed kid, you once harbored dreams of a future in space. But face it, the only moon you’ll ever step foot on will belong to passed-out, drunken, former bright-eyed aspiring astronaut losers who are, unfortunately for you.
在申請工作時，種族是無關緊要的，事實上，在一些地方，由于平權行動政策，非白人會給人們帶來優勢，大多數殘疾人也可以這么說。當然總會有例外的，
潛力
不是每個人長大后都能成為宇航員的。作為一個眼睛明亮的孩子，你曾經懷有在太空中生活的夢想。但面對現實吧，你能踏上的唯一一顆月球將屬于那些醉醺醺的，曾經雄心勃勃的宇航員失敗者，對你來說很不幸。
That’s a very nice world you live in.
你生活的世界真美好。
What's that supposed to mean? I'm just stating facts. Not everyone gets their ideal job. You can look for what you can find, and have some kind of income, or you can sit at home with no income”holding out for a management position”. It all comes down to choices. People can choose to better themselves, instill on their children the importance of an education, or they can blame others for their choices.
這意味著什么？我只是在陳述事實。不是每個人都能得到理想的工作。你可以尋找你能找到的工作，并獲得某種收入，或者你可以坐在家里，沒有收入“等待一個管理職位”。這一切都歸結于選擇。人們可以選擇讓自己變得更好，向孩子灌輸教育的重要性，或者他們可以將自己的選擇歸咎于他人。
I think that it’s wonderful that you live in a world where discrimination doesn’t exist, everybody competes on a fair field. That is truly wonderful congratulations. I live in Texas where we call people named Gonzales wetbacks and illegals, even if the family has lived here for 250 years. I like your world better.
我認為生活在一個沒有歧視的世界里是一件很棒的事，每個人都在一個公平的環境中競爭。這真是太棒了。我住在德克薩斯州，我們管叫Gonzales的人叫偷渡者和非法移民，即使他們一家已經在這里生活了250年。我更喜歡你的世界。
Dave, I have as many Mexican family in the U.S. as in Mexico. And every single one of them has been able to become a homeowner with a stable job and at least one college degree. Don’t use discrimination as an excuse. It dishonors you and your ancestors no matter where you are from. And the thousands of successful men and women of every race and language who have succeeded and are succeeding in the U.S. show what a lame excuse it is.
戴夫，我在美國的墨西哥家庭和在墨西哥的一樣多。他們中的每一個人都有能力成為一個有穩定工作和至少擁有一個大學學位的房主。不要以歧視為借口。它羞辱了你和你的祖先，無論你來自哪里。成千上萬來自不同種族、不同語言的成功人士在美國取得了成功，而且正在取得成功，這只能表明這是一個多么蹩腳的借口。
Good for them. Congratulations.
對他們有利，祝賀你。
I have lived in Texas since school bussing was started. Discrimination in the work place does not exist here to any meaningful or substantive degree. That died a slow death in the 1970’s.
If you want a contract doing work for a government agency or bidding for a government contract, you had best be a minority or work for a minority owned company.
We have this weird thing here where leftists claim that they are surrounded by racists, but they only hang out with other leftists. Conservatives think racism is dead, but mostly hang with other conservatives or people who don’t discuss politics.
If you ask a Texan for a modern manifestation of discrimination, all they can point to as an actual event involves government policies like college admission preference and affirmative action. Apparently, the way to fix discrimination in the past is to discriminate the other direction today.
The simple fact is that to even be falsely accused of being racist in Texas today is a serious problem. Nobody engages in discrimination in the work place because even a hint of racial animosity by a white person causes social ostracism and can cost your job without even a shred of evidence.
自從學校開始提供校車服務以來，我一直住在德克薩斯州。工作場所的歧視在這里并不存在任何有意義或實質性的程度。這種歧視在70年代慢慢消失了。
如果你想要一份為政府機構工作的合同，或者投標政府合同，你最好是少數族裔，或者在少數族裔擁有的公司工作。
這里有個奇怪的現象，左翼分子聲稱他們周圍都是種族主義者，但他們只和其他左翼分子交往。保守派認為種族主義已死，但他們大多與其他保守派人士或不討論政治的人一起聚會。
如果你問一個德州人歧視的現代表現形式，他們所能指出的實際事件都與政府政策有關，比如大學入學優先權和平權行動。
很明顯，解決過去歧視問題的方法就是今天歧視另一個方向。
簡單的事實是，在今天的德克薩斯州，即使被錯誤地指責為種族主義者也是一個嚴重的問題。沒有人會在工作場所進行歧視，因為白人哪怕流露出一絲種族仇恨，都會導致社會排斥，甚至會在沒有任何證據的情況下讓你丟掉工作。
Nobody gets their ideal job. You got to start at the bottom and work yourselves up. You got to take advantage of the free education you get even in republican states, build up your skills make yourself valuable and attractive to an employer. Lot’s of people make it. There are some exceptions of course, such as the chronically debilitated. But the people who can’t make it in the U.S. do not fail for lack of opportunity.
沒有人能得到理想的工作。你得從基層做起，努力工作。即使是在共和黨州，你也要利用免費教育的優勢，提高技能讓自己對雇主有價值，有吸引力。很多人都成功了。當然，也有一些例外，比如那些長期虛弱的人。但是那些在美國不能成功的人不會因為缺少機會而失敗。
Yes, it is. I hope you will join us in it!
是的，確實如此，我希望你能加入我們！
原創翻譯：龍騰網 http://www.mmg13444.com 轉載請注明出處
Odd as it probably seems to you, I prefer reality.
也許你會覺得奇怪，但我更喜歡現實。
Hasn’t it become apparent that your reality is only your reality No one else here has witnessed your reality. Maybe you should take another look.
很明顯，你的現實就是你的現實，這里沒有其他人見證過你的現實。也許你該再看看現實。
原創翻譯：龍騰網 http://www.mmg13444.com 轉載請注明出處
None of my comments mention or allude to race.
My last comment stands - excluding non-typical situations, my comments are well founded.
我的評論中沒有提到或暗示種族問題。
我最后的評論是——排除非典型情況，我的評論是有根據的。
But you pulled the race card first.
但你先打出了種族牌
The most successful cultures are those that prioritize the education of their children. When that's Asians it becomes a problem because you can no longer claim minority bias or racism. This is why we should discuss everything on the basis of culture and achievement and nothing on the basis of race. There are plenty of people from every culture that prioritize the education of their children and that should be the gold standard instead of a cultural secret.
最成功的文化是那些優先考慮孩子教育的文化。如果是亞洲人，那就有問題了，因為你不能再聲稱有少數族裔偏見或種族歧視了。這就是為什么我們應該在文化和成就的基礎上討論一切，而不是在種族的基礎上討論一切的原因。每一種文化都有很多人把孩子的教育放在首位，這應該是黃金標準，而不是文化秘密。
The single most successful immigrant group in the US, in terms of education and financial success are immigrants from Nigeria. They're actually more successful than Asians as a group. Why aren't they held back by this rampant racism?
就教育和經濟成就而言，美國最成功的移民群體是來自尼日利亞的移民。作為一個整體，他們實際上比亞洲人更成功。為什么他們沒有被這種猖獗的種族主義所阻止？
原創翻譯：龍騰網 http://www.mmg13444.com 轉載請注明出處
I understand your point but we should not downplay or disregard the racist policies that have contributed to perpetuated poverty.
我理解你的觀點，但我們不應輕視或忽視導致長期貧困的種族主義政策。
I understand your point - BUT race based policies should be down played.
Up and down are relative
Racial issues are not to be ignored - but is counter productive if the are up played
We need to eliminate - not create race based policies
Dennis just explained and you agreed that race is not the primary causal factor.
So why is it up played as such
So ask why is race/ racism being promoted as such?
Far left full socialist political agenda anyone?
Identification and unification of the oppressed possibly?
So IF YOU really care about black people then dont let their identity be used by the political puppet masters
In another 20 years - it will be seen as yet one more form of racism - seemingly in the name of anti racism
So let me repeat
ANYTHING centered on race and especially anything that see race as critical - is social dynamite
Social problems are to be solved by social soloutions - not by government intervention and political ideologies
我理解你的觀點-但是種族政策應該被淡化。
上下是相對的
種族問題不應被忽視，但如果被忽視，則會適得其反
我們需要消除——而不是創造基于種族的政策
丹尼斯剛才解釋了，你也同意種族不是主要的原因。
那么，為什么要這樣做呢
所以問一下為什么種族/種族主義被這樣推崇？
極左翼的社會主義政治議程有人知道嗎？
被壓迫者的認同和統一？
所以，如果你真的關心黑人，那就不要讓他們的身份被政治傀儡主人利用
再過20年，它將被視為又一種形式的種族主義——貌似打著反種族主義的旗號
我再重復一遍
任何以種族為中心的事情，尤其是任何將種族視為關鍵的事情，都是社會炸藥
社會問題應該通過社會解決方案來解決，而不是通過政府干預和政治意識形態來解決
As someone who has raised two biracial boys and has watched this first hand for about 35 years I'll tell you I never observed any barriers beyond lack of focus on education. I also experienced failing at turning one of my sons into a barely competent violinist after 7 years of thrice weekly violin lessons because that was nothing compared to what Russian and Asian parents demand of their children.
作為一個養大了兩個混血男孩的人，我親眼目睹這一切已經有35年了，我可以告訴你，除了缺乏對教育的關注之外，我從未發現任何障礙。我還經歷過，我的一個兒子在7年的每周三次的小提琴課程后，變成了一個勉強夠格的小提琴手，因為這與俄羅斯和亞洲父母對孩子的要求相比根本不算什么。
I hired an Asian girl as a violin tutor for my son once and I asked her what her parents did to turn her into a violinist. She said “They locked me in my room on the weekends.” I asked how she felt about that. She said “Well it gave me good finger control. “ I realized that achieving excellence in raising children was like a cultural secret. Not only did I have no experience with that level of expectation but I wouldn't have had the discipline myself to impose it on my children. Raising children who can achieve is NO JOKE.
有一次，我雇了一個亞洲女孩給我兒子當小提琴家教，我問她，她的父母是怎么把她培養成小提琴家的。她說:“他們周末把我鎖在房間里?！?我問她對此感覺如何。她說:“這讓我的手指控制的很好?！拔乙庾R到，在撫養孩子方面取得卓越成就就像一個文化秘密。我不僅沒有那種程度的期望的經驗，而且我自己也沒有能力把它強加給我的孩子。培養一個有成就的孩子可不是鬧著玩的。
You must live in a big city, with segregated “slums”. Where I come from, everybody has an equal opportunity to the same education. It's quite sad, all this talk about systemic racism, as it's coming from places where there's high percentages of minority groups living in poverty, in, basically, segregated communities, who are not getting the educational opportunities that are afforded their white counterparts.
你必須住在大城市里，那里有種族隔離的“貧民窟”。在我的家鄉，每個人都有平等的機會接受同樣的教育。這很可悲，所有這些關于系統性種族主義的言論，因為這些言論來自那些生活在貧困中的少數群體，基本上是隔離的社區，他們得不到與白人同齡人同等的教育機會。
Gee, if that were true then how did anyone rise out of poverty in those situations? Obviously they have some great secret
天啊，如果這是真的，那么在這種情況下，人們是如何擺脫貧困的呢？顯然他們有什么大秘密
原創翻譯：龍騰網 http://www.mmg13444.com 轉載請注明出處
And what policy do you imagine forces African American kids to drop out?
你認為是什么政策迫使非裔美國孩子退學的？
when I started college I stayed at home, continued to run with my non college friends, didn't study enough, and did horrible, until I moved to the dorms where everyone needed to study.
當我開始上大學時，我呆在家里，繼續和我的非大學朋友跑步，不怎么學習，成績也不好，直到我搬到每個人都需要學習的宿舍。
My apologies, I meant more along the lines of an official school or government policy, not the unofficial actions of others. Not trying to diminish what you went through, without the racial aspects I saw similar disdain for academic pursuits in favor of sports. To a lesser degree, of course
我道歉，我更多的是指學?；蛘墓俜秸?，而不是其他人的非官方行為。我并不是想貶低你所經歷的一切，也沒有種族歧視，我看到了人們為了追求體育而蔑視學術。當然，程度要小一些
Anybody who pushes the model minority MYTH is either uninformed or in denial. Education is important, but to pretend everything is all cuz “them black people don't care about education so its their own fault they're struggling" is as dumb as every single issue being blamed for racism.
任何推動模范少數族裔神話的人要么是無知，要么是在否認。教育是重要的，但只是假裝一切都很重要，因為“他們黑人不關心教育，所以他們在掙扎，這是他們自己的錯”，這是愚蠢的，就像每一個被指責為種族主義的問題一樣。
I’ve worked in an inner city Chicago school and one of the wealthiest Chicago suburbs. Asians, latins, blacks, no Native Americans that I could discern, but plenty Native Americans when I worked in Arizona. Persons who came from families who valued education succeeded. I generally haven’t observed Anyone who failed academically because of discrimination. The only kid I saw who didn’t know how to read was promoted due to misguided policies meant to fight discrimination. If he had been held to the same standard as the other kids, he wouldn’t have had it as easy, but he also would have a real chance to succeed in life.
我曾在芝加哥市內的一所學校和芝加哥最富有的郊區工作過。亞洲人，拉丁人，黑人，沒有我認識的印第安人，但我在亞利桑那工作的時候有很多印第安人。那些出身于重視教育家庭的人成功了。我一般沒有看到過因為歧視而在學業上失敗的人。我所見過的唯一一個不識字的孩子因為反對歧視的錯誤政策而得到提拔。如果把他和其他孩子放在同樣的標準下，他就不會那么容易得到提拔了，但他也會有真正的機會在生活中取得成功。
If one race is significantly above the other races in number of absentee days and has significantly lower test scores than the other races, then yes people can claim that. And yes, there are circumstances that arent just they dont care about education like the children needing to work.
And yes, there can be external factors that keep people down but that does not mean we should ignore the internal factors.
如果一個種族的缺勤天數明顯高于其他種族，并且考試分數明顯低于其他種族，那么是的，人們可以這樣說。是的，有些情況不僅僅是他們不關心教育，比如還有孩子需要工作。是的，可能會有外部因素讓人們消沉，但這并不意味著我們應該忽視內部因素。
I never said that external factors didnt help cause it.
Just because black people were put into a shit situation doesn't mean they cant escape from it. But its crazy how you act like they cant escape from it, you are infantilizing them.
我從來沒有忽視過外部因素導致的后果。
僅僅因為黑人被置于一種糟糕的處境并不意味著他們不能逃脫這種處境。但你表現得好像他們無法逃脫，這太瘋狂了，你把他們當成了孩子。
Except the “internal" factors are a direct result of the external factors. It always amazes me that folks just think that these issues randomly came about as the result of “black people just choosing to have these issues.”
And yes, it is a myth. It's called the model minority MYTH for a reason. It requires one to ignore the huge differences I circumstances that lead such populations to the to where they are today. It must PRETEND that the circumstances of such populations have been the same when they have not. To ignore how the past shapes the present. It's why folks ignore the economic backgrounds of these successful Asian and African immigrants cuz it only shows that black Americans who are already well established here in terms of heritage/lineage are NOT on a fair playing field.
除了“內部”因素外，還有外部因素導致的直接結果。讓我感到驚訝的是，人們只是認為這些問題是隨機產生的，因為“黑人選擇有這些問題”。
是的，這是一個神話。它被稱為模范少數族裔神話是有原因的。我們必須忽視導致這些人口發展到今天的巨大環境差異。必須假裝這些人口的情況與過去一樣，但實際上并非如此。忽略過去如何塑造現在，這就是為什么人們忽視這些成功的亞洲和非洲移民的經濟背景，因為這只表明，就血統而言，美國黑人已經在這里建立了良好的地位，但他們并不是在一個公平的競爭環境中。
You can’t change the past, you can only change the future. If you don’t like your circumstances, change your circumstances. You can’t change other people, you can only change yourself. Be the master of your own destiny.
你不能改變過去，你只能改變未來。如果你不喜歡你的環境，那就改變你的環境。你不能改變別人，你只能改變自己。做自己命運的主人。
That's all fine and dandy, but that's not how society works bud. Man, I honestly wonder what you folks would say to black people all that time ago. “Don't care about what they say. Nevermind the fact you were a slave and weren't taught to read or write or anything.You're in charge if your own destiny, so change it.”
這一切都很好，但這不是社會的運作方式?；镉?，我真想知道你們以前會對黑人說些什么。不要在意他們說什么。別介意你是個奴隸，沒人教過你讀書寫字之類的。你掌握著自己的命運，所以改變它吧?！?br>原創翻譯：龍騰網 http://www.mmg13444.com 轉載請注明出處
“Don't care about what they say. Nevermind the fact you were a slave and weren't taught to read or write or anything.You're in charge if your own destiny, so change it.”
As no living American black was a slave, that statement is useless.
And yes, you can tell someone “Here is a roadmap to help improve your life.” while also giving them the resources that can help them.
If someone was given $1 million and told how to invest it to make money, and they go blow it gambling.
不要在意他們說什么。別介意你是個奴隸，沒人教過你讀書寫字之類的。你掌握著自己的命運，所以改變它吧?！?br /> 因為沒有一個活著的美國黑人是奴隸，這種說法是沒有意義的。
是的，你可以告訴別人“這是一個可以幫助你改善生活的路標?！?同時也給予他們可以幫助他們的資源。
如果有人得到了100萬美元，并被告知如何投資以賺取更多的錢，而他們卻把這些錢揮霍在賭博上。
Plenty of them were able to change their futures.
他們中的很多人能夠改變自己的未來。
YOU are the one that juxtaposed internal and external factors, not me.
I never argued nor implied that it is impossible black people cannot overcome. Overcoming is literally part of black culture. Frankly, black people should get hella more praise for being where they are despite all the bs they've put up with and continue to be put up with.
What I'm arguing against is this stupid notion that black people are only holding themselves back, that the past doesn't shape the present, that there aren't still issues, that there shouldn't be a collective effort to address the issues and that it should all be on black people to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps.” Erica said all that in her comment. Very clearly, as matter of fact. And Erica is indeed using the model minority MYTH. That was also very clear. “Black culture" is the issue. Cultures like “Asian culture" are good cuz they value education.
Idk why you're trying to act like you're acknowledging and agree with the point I was making while actively arguing against it. I'm not saying nor implying thay cuz these issues are heavily shaped by past and present racism that black people should just sit there and do nothing. Of course you continue to work hard.
是你把內部和外部因素并列在一起，而不是我。
我從來沒有爭辯過，也沒有暗示過這是黑人無法克服的?？朔呛谌宋幕囊徊糠?。坦率地說，因為他們現在所處的位置，黑人應該得到更多的贊揚，盡管他們已經忍受并繼續忍受所有的廢話。
我反對的是這種愚蠢的觀念，認為黑人只是在自我克制，過去并不能塑造現在，問題已經不存在了，不應該有一個集體的努力來解決這些問題，所有這些問題都應該由黑人“自力更生”。愛麗卡在她的評論里都說了。很明顯，事實上。艾麗卡確實使用了模范少數族裔神話。這也很清楚，問題在于“黑人文化”，像“亞洲文化”這樣的文化很好，因為他們重視教育。
我不知道為什么你在積極反對我的觀點的同時，卻試圖表現得承認并同意我的觀點。我不是說或暗示這些問題，因為這些問題很大程度上受過去和現在的種族主義影響，黑人應該只是坐在那里，什么都不做。你當然要繼續努力。
No matter how hard it may seem, and no matter the sacrifices that need to be made, working is always the answer to self improvement.
If you say I can’t afford to take classes to improve myself. Then you’ve effectively said, I like the apartment I have, I like the types of food I eat, and I like all the other things I spend my money on, instead of spending it on things that make me better.
For example, for an entire year I spent less than $25 a month on food. I had cheerios for breakfast, and peanut butter and jelly for lunch and dinner. The cheapest jellies are strawberry and grape. Don’t like grape jelly, so I always got the strawberry. And once in a while, I would splurge and get orange marmalade. And I always got those in bulk. The bread I got, was always the cheapest.
Also, I rented a tiny little room in a house.
無論工作看起來多么艱難，無論需要做出什么犧牲，工作永遠是自我提升的答案。
如果你說我沒錢去上課提高自己。然后你又說，我喜歡我的公寓，我喜歡我吃的食物，我喜歡我花錢買的所有其他東西，而不是把錢花在能夠自我提升的事情上。
例如，整整一年，我每個月在食物上的花費不到25美元。我早餐吃麥片，午餐和晚餐吃花生醬和果醬。最便宜的果醬是草莓果醬和葡萄果醬。
我不喜歡葡萄果醬，所以我總是買草莓的果醬。偶爾，我會揮霍一下，買些橘子醬。我總是買散裝的。我買的面包總是最便宜的。另外，我租了一個小房間。
Getting out of poverty in the United States is relatively straightforward.
Get off of government welfare because that restricts your options of improving your life.
Get an education. You don’t need a college education to do well in United States. Skills as simple as being a truck driver or an HVAC tech can earn you an extraordinarily good living.
Lastly you need to be willing to work hard and make sacrifices initially in order to improve your future life.
在美國，擺脫貧困相對簡單。
擺脫政府福利，因為這限制了你改善生活的選擇。
接受教育。在美國，你不需要接受大學教育就能過得很好。像卡車司機或暖通空調技術這樣簡單的技能可以讓你過上非常好的生活。
最后，你需要愿意努力工作，一開始就做出犧牲，以改善你未來的生活。
As for getting out of poverty, the primary need is to recognize the local conditions that are contributing to a persons economic and financial situation and working hard to adjust them. This is made difficult by policies of both government in the economy and society that stand as obstacles to rising from poverty. That is true anywhere.
至于擺脫貧困，首要的是需要認識到有助于個人經濟和財政狀況的當地有利條件，并努力加以調整。在經濟和社會中，政府的政策是擺脫貧困的障礙，這使得實現這一目標變得很困難，這在任何地方都是一樣的。