QA提問：日本人和韓國人能讀懂文言文版的維基百科嗎
Can Japanese and Korean people read the classical Chinese (漢文) version of Wikipedia?
譯文簡介
網友：事實上，我幾乎不會說任何現代漢語，除了必修的高中課程外，我也從未正式學習過文言文。所以不要認為這是這篇文章的正確翻譯，但我還是會嘗試，只是想給你一個提示，日本人可能會如何“閱讀”文言文。這是我在沒有進行查閱的情況下試圖翻譯這篇文章的前兩句話......
正文翻譯
日本人和韓國人能讀懂文言文版的維基百科嗎
評論翻譯
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OK… Challenge accepted! I’ll try to read the first part of this article. Just to note, I have gone through a regular curriculum in a Japanese high school, and was taught to read kanbun(Classical Chinese) for around 2 or 3 hours a week. I haven’t read much since I graduated high school, but I occasionally try to read some in my spare time, just for fun.
Actually, I speak barely any modern Mandarin, nor I never formally studied classical Chinese outside of the mandatory high school lessons. So don’t think this is the correct translation of the article, but I’ll try anyway, just to give you a hint how a Japanese might be able to “read” classical Chinese. So these are the first two sentences I tried to translate without using references.
Original Text:文言者，古東亞人書其言以述志表情者也。先民言語傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。
文言は古の東亜人が其の言を書きて以て志表情を述べるもの也。先民言語は口耳により伝わり、縄を結ぶを以て記すに至っては、贅を日々に事ひ(?)、是縄を結ぶこれ足らず、諸絵図求め、絵図猶(??)、而して字を創り文を製し、金石、竹帛に之を載せ、劉漢より諸紙に書く。
Attempted translation:
Classical Chinese is what ancient East-Asians used to write their words in order to describe their feelings and expressions. Languages of the ancients were communicated orally, and tying ropes were used to record the language, which was used everyday excessively, and as a result the ropes were not enough. (People) searched for pictures, but pictures were still (??), and thus they created characters and composed sentences, and marked on golden stones and on bamboo strips, then after the Han dynasty period, they wrote it down on paper.
There were no characters I couldn’t recognize except 逾 and 帛, although even for the ones I was able to recognize, I am not sure the meanings are precisely correct. I guessed that the 竹帛 is something you can inscribe on, so I translated it as a bamboo strip.
好吧，接受挑戰。我將嘗試閱讀本文的第一部分。請注意，我在一所日本高中上過常規課程，每周有2到3個小時的時間學習閱讀漢文（文言文）。高中畢業后我沒怎么讀漢文，但我偶爾會在業余時間讀一些，只是因為興趣。
事實上，我幾乎不會說任何現代漢語，除了必修的高中課程外，我也從未正式學習過文言文。所以不要認為這是這篇文章的正確翻譯，但我還是會嘗試，只是想給你一個提示，日本人可能會如何“閱讀”文言文。這是我在沒有進行查閱的情況下試圖翻譯這篇文章的前兩句話。
原文是:文言者，古東亞人書其言以述志表情者也。先民言語傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。
我的（可能錯漏百出）漢文直譯體（譯注：把漢文改寫為帶假名的現代日文）：
嘗試翻譯：
文言文是古代東亞人用來書寫以描述他們情感和表述的文字。古人的語言是口頭交流的，并用繩子記錄，每天都會用掉很多繩子，結果繩子不夠用。（人們）尋找圖片，但圖片仍然（？？），因此他們創造了文字，組成了句子，并標記在黃金石頭和竹條上，到了漢代以后，他們將其寫在紙上。
除了“逾”和“帛”之外,沒有一個字是我不認識的。 即使是那些我認識的字，我也不確定這些意思是否準確。我猜“竹帛”是一種你可以在上面雕刻的東西，所以我把它翻譯成了竹條。
這是一次有趣的嘗試，但同時也是一次令人筋疲力盡的嘗試。如果你有一些基本的高中漢文知識，我認為你可以了解文章正在講述的事情，但不能完全理解細節。
原創翻譯：龍騰網 http://www.mmg13444.com 轉載請注明出處
Well, I am 47 year old Korean who majored computer science. I am a kind of Hangul (Korean alphabet) only generation who was not intensively taught Chinese characters in school.
But I was interested in learning Chinese characters in middle school and high school, and I still try to learn them for fun.
I will try to translate the Classical Chinese sentences in a letter by letter basis. My translation may have many errors.
*** this cannot be a “translation.” I think this should be called “a guess.”
The original text was slighted modified and added as follows:
文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越。
我是47歲的韓國人，主修計算機科學。我是一個只學諺文（韓語字母）的一代人，在學校里沒有集中學習過漢字。
但是我在中學和高中時對學習漢字很感興趣，我仍然試著根據興趣去學習漢字
我將嘗試逐字翻譯文言文句子。我的翻譯可能有很多錯誤。
***這不是“翻譯”，我認為這應該被稱為“猜測”
對原文略作修改和補充，內容如下：
文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越。
古代中國人和鄰國用文言文來描述他們的意愿和表達他們的情感。人們首先用耳朵和嘴來說話和交流，然后以打結來記錄，但事情變得如此復雜，僅僅打結是不夠的。因此，他們首先使用圖畫，但圖畫也變得不夠用。然后，他們創造文字，組成句子，并把它們寫在金屬、石頭、竹子和絲綢上。從劉漢代開始，他們就在紙上寫字。在唐宋時期，文人們敬仰舊時風格而輕視當代的風格。他們敬仰舊時秦朝的文字、規則和？？？認為它們是理想的模式。因此，雖然聽和說的方式已經改變了成百上千年，但讀和寫仍然可以貫穿三個朝代而被理解。雖然文言文不是突然之間產生的，？？？？？，但是，它可能起源于燕國和越國。
wow, that is impressive. A couple of points though.
first ???? means they created rules and styles in the model of old texts. 先秦 here would mean entire classical China, Shang, Zhou, Qin and sometimes Han.
燕越 while literally does mean Yan and Yue kingdoms, in this context, it simply means far away. Same with 三代 means many many generations and dynasties rather just exactly three. 莫衷一是 mean having different opinions, not of the same thing.
Thus 唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越. would translate to
The last two phrases is really just a restating of previous two sentences. While annoying and verbose, it was the style back then.
哇，令人印象深刻。不過有兩點需要注意
第一個？？？？意思是他們以舊文本為模板創建了規則和樣式?！跋惹亍边@里指的是整個古典中國時期，商周秦漢。
這句話的主旨是正式的文言文是在唐宋時期以舊時文人的風格而不是當代文人的風格形成的。因此，即使在古代，文言文也與白話文不同。
雖然“燕越”意思確實是燕國和越國，但在本文中，它僅僅意味著遙遠?！叭币彩峭瑯?，意思是很多很多代以及朝代，而不是指確切的三?！澳砸皇恰币馑际怯性S多不同的觀點，而非一致。
所以，“唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越”可以翻譯為
雖然以不同風格書寫于不同的時期，相互之間差別巨大，年代久遠，（但文言文依然可以被看懂）。
最后兩個短語實際上只是前兩句話的重述。雖然煩人且冗長，但這是當時的風格。
as Japanese, we can ready 漢文 by meaning. It's not perfectly but I can guess what they are writing about. Japanese Kanji and Chinese are pretty similar meaning. I can communicate with my Chinese friends by Kanji and Chinese. (not perfectly) We learn 漢文、古文 in high school.
作為日本人，我們能讀懂漢文的意思。并不能完全看懂，但我能猜出他們在寫什么。日本漢字和中國漢字的意思非常相似。我可以用漢字和漢語與我的中國朋友交流（不完美）。在高中，我們學習漢文、古文。
This is a challenging question, and still I will go as far to give my best answer with any applicable upxes. I posit the answer is somewhat of a 'yes' to varying degrees, yet it is challenging to parse for some at least initially.
文言文 or "Classical Chinese" is fascinating in how it works and compares to other languages alongside more common and colloquial forms of Chinese. This form of language tends to be highly expressive and formal while also being very brief. This language looks very abbreviated in terms of how many characters it takes to convey a given idea compared to others that even includes General Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. Each character in and of itself is able to abstractly represent a 'noun' as well as a 'verb', sometimes almost simultaneously. As with Chinese, there appears to be some amount of fuzzy logic present in textual form, though it may be quite abstract and necessitate multidimensional thinking.
Since a lix is given, I will give my effort to translate it as well (in a general way), although I intend to focus on portions of the article which are not as frequently translated by others. 文言文 is included below:
『文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越?！?
(The character used for "many [stacked]" now looks like "三" also known as 'three' in common usage, yet variation in stroke length could produce a similar yet perhaps functionally distinct Sinograph; its usage appears similar to abstract uses of 王, which is in characters like 琴.)
『文言，興於漢，又云漢文，外交朝鮮、東胡、匈奴、西域、南越等諸國，其戎狄之民，惟用言而無文，故受漢文，曰漢文云，書同文，言文異。朝鮮，曰漢文（??）。日本曰漢文（かんぶん）。南越，亦曰漢文（Hán V?n）?！?br />
Classical language, fascinating Sino[graphs], like Chinese of the sky (clouds), found exchanged use among Koreans (朝鮮 /??/: Jeosong), Eastern peoples (Hu), Xiong-nu, Western [bordering] domains, Vietnam, and so on. Aside from military personnel, it was essentially used by those without much of their own writing traditions, with speaking, writing, and some variations. Koreans call it "Hanmun", Japanese "Kanbūn", Vietnamese "Hán Vǎn".
As formal education on the classics is present in Japan and Korea, there are materials and classes dealing with 文言文, particularly in Japan. The Japanese term which designates Classical Chinese [studies] is 漢文 /kan-būn/ or 'Han Writing'. Typically, this begins around High/Secondary School, although in some cases (such as with gifted students) it could be learned earlier on. In Korea, students might typically learn Classical Chinese a little later than their Chinese and Japanese peers, likely late in Secondary School or quite likely in College. Education in Korea tends to highlight Hangul (itself an impressive writing system), and still it is important that students learn at least some ?? (漢字: Hanja) by around middle school.
Japanese and Korean students are usually prompted to learn upwards of 2000~3000 characters, though most Sinographs (characters) are made up of the same essential lines (strokes) on an atomic level and other components going up in complexity. The more or less 'molecular' level of Sinographic composition could be considering as being general ‘radicles’ not including basic strokes (approximation: 一丨丿丶乛乚乙 ……). The number of radicles varies to some extent not only in Chinese but between countries, yet the number largely comes out as being between around one hundred to more than two hundred (some radicle systems even have three hundred or more, though these are often likely variations of the basic radicle set).
There are some number of places and resources online that discuss 文言文. Interestingly, I some comparisons and ideas that suggest 文言文 can be viewed through the lens of programming [language]. One such lix I found that does this is a lecture from YouTube titled "The Programming Language Called Classical Chinese" by David Branner. Still, fairly educated people from China and surrounding countries will be able to at least read some 文言文 and have at least a basic idea (perhaps akin to a summary of important points) of the meaning in a given passage.
這是一個具有挑戰性的問題，我仍然會盡可能給出我的最佳答案，并提供合適的更新。我認為答案在不同程度上都是肯定的，但至少在最初階段，對文言文作出解析對一些人來說是一個挑戰。
文言文或者說“古典漢語”，與其它語言以及更常見的漢語口語比起來，它的運作方式是很吸引人的。這種語言形式非常具有表現力，非常正式，同時也非常簡短。與其他語言（甚至包括一般的中文、日文和韓文）相比，這種語言在表達一個特定想法所需的字數非常少。每個字本身都能抽象地表示一個“名詞”或一個“動詞”，有時幾乎同時表示名詞和動詞。作為漢語，文本形式中似乎存在一些模糊邏輯，盡管它可能相當抽象，需要多維思維。
既然已經給出了鏈接，我也會盡力翻譯它（以通常的方式），盡管我打算把重點放在文章中其他人不經常翻譯的部分。
文言文內容如下：
『文言者，華夏、四裔所以書其言，而述志表情也。
先民言語，傳乎口耳，至結繩以記，事日贅，是結繩之不足，求諸繪圖，繪圖猶逾，而創字製文，金石竹帛載之，自劉漢而書諸紙。唐宋降，文士崇古非今，尚先秦古文，規法矩繩，典模乃定。由是，口述耳聞者雖變於百歲千載，手書目觀者猶通，前後貫延三代。唯文言非創於一舉而得，所式所尊，莫衷一是，時比燕越?！?br /> 文言文是一種起源于先秦時期的古老語言。它首先以口述的方式開始，然后發展到用繩子記錄，然后是繪畫，然后是在金屬、石頭、竹子和織物（絲綢）上書寫，這些都出現于相近的時代，直到漢代（劉）使用紙和書來書寫。在唐宋時期，學者們保持著更古老、更正式的中文傳統。在秦朝以前，結成圖案的繩子是有規則的，于是就定下了圖案的樣式。因此，說話者和聽眾在數百到數千年之間發生了巨大的變化，文人們發現，這些事物可以在許多代人的時間里得以被追溯。雖然所有創造文言文的人并不是在一瞬間將它創造出來的，但它被認為起源于燕越兩國之間的時代。
（用來表示“許多[成堆]”的這個字現在看起來像“三“通常也被作為“三”，但筆畫長度的變化可能會產生一種類似但意思上可能不同的漢字；它的用法似乎類似于漢字“王”的抽象用法, 就比如在“琴”這個字里面)
同一篇文章的另一段內容如下：
文言文，迷人的漢字[圖形]，就像漢語里的天（云），在與朝鮮、東胡、匈奴、西域、越南等國交流中使用。除了軍事人員外，它基本上是由那些沒有太多自己的書寫傳統的人使用的，包括口語、書寫和一些變體。朝鮮人稱之為“漢文”（Hanmun），日本人稱之為“漢文”（Kanbūn），越南人也稱之為“漢文”（Hán V?n）。
由于日本和韓國都有關于文言文的正規教育，因此也有文言文的教材和課程，尤其是在日本。日語中用來指代文言文[研究]的術語是“漢文”或“漢文書寫”。通常情況下，文言文學習始于高中左右，盡管在某些情況下（比如有天賦的學生）可以更早地學習。在韓國，學生學習文言文的時間通常比他們的中國和日本同齡人晚一點，可能是在中學后期，也很可能是在大學。韓國的教育傾向于強調諺文（諺文本身就是一種令人印象深刻的書寫體系），但學生在中學左右至少學習一些漢字，這很重要。
日本和韓國學生通常被要求學習2000~3000個漢字，盡管大多數漢字在原子層級上是由相同的基本線條（筆劃）和其它部分組成并變得復雜起來的。漢字構成的分子層面可以認為是一般的字根，不包括基本筆劃（比如：一丨丿丶乛乚乙 ……)除了漢語，在不同國家的語言之間，字根的數量在某種程度上也有所不同，但數量在很大程度上介于一百到二百多個之間（一些字根系統甚至有三百個或更多，盡管這些通?？赡苁腔A字根的變體）。
網上有一些討論文言文的地方和資源。有趣的是，我看到一些比較，以及一些表明文言文可以通過編程[語言]的視角來觀察的想法。我發現的一個網址就是油管上David Branner的一篇題為“被稱為文言文的編程語言”的演講。盡管如此，來自中國和周邊國家的受過良好教育的人至少有能力閱讀一些文言文，并且至少對給定段落的意思有一個基本的了解（可能類似于對要點的總結）。
Steven Lee (李揚靈)
原創翻譯：龍騰網 http://www.mmg13444.com 轉載請注明出處
An average Japanese person at most recognizes 2000 Kanji, a Korean knows much less than that. It generally requires around 5000 or above Kanji/Hanja to read Classical Chinese articles. Most people can read a few words but can’t grasp the full picture of a comprehensive article due to the lack of enough vocabulary.
But both counties have a large number of Sinologists who can read and write Classical Chinese. I don’t know much about Korea but Japan has a lot of Chinese study institutions, the most prestigious domains are Chinese history, Tunhuangology, Tibetan and Yangmingism. Other than that, some Japanese writers have a profound understanding of Chinese history and language. Here are some famous Japanese writers that I know belong to this club.
夏目漱石 (Natsume Sōseki )
森秀樹 (漫畫家) (Hideki Mori )
司馬遼太郎 (Ryōtarō_Shiba )
井上靖 (Yasushi Inoue)
田中芳樹 (Yoshiki Tanaka)
這要看情況，簡短的回答是絕大多數人不能。
一個普通的日本人最多能認識2000個漢字，而一個韓國人認識的要少得多。閱讀文言文一般需要認識5000或以上的漢字。大多數人只會讀幾個詞語，但由于缺乏足夠的詞匯，無法掌握一篇綜合性文章的全貌。
但兩國都有大量能讀寫文言文的漢學家。我對韓國了解不多，但日本有很多中國研究機構，最著名的領域是中國歷史、敦煌學、藏學和陽明學。除此之外，一些日本作家對中國歷史和語言有著深刻的理解。這里有一些我知道屬于這個范疇的日本著名作家。
夏目漱石 (Natsume Sōseki )
森秀樹 (漫畫家) (Hideki Mori )
司馬遼太郎 (Ryōtarō_Shiba )
井上靖 (Yasushi Inoue)
田中芳樹 (Yoshiki Tanaka)
Tom Karlsson
That's not true that a Japanese person at most recognises 2,000 kanji. 2,000 is the minimum required when graduating high school, but the vast majority of Japanese know a lot more, usually 3,000-4,000 and sometimes even more.
你說日本人最多只能認識2000個漢字，這說法不對。2000個是高中畢業的最低要求，但絕大多數日本人知道的要多得多，通常是3000-4000，有時甚至更多。
I’m a Korean. And the answer is close to no.
We do have classical Chinese character classes since we are in elementary school up until high school in many cases, although it’s like, one hour a week. We get to know the basics, and not knowing the basic characters could be a drawback in everyday lives in some circumstances or when reading the newspaper.
But no, that doesn’t mean that we can read almost everything, nor does it mean that we can read full sentences at once fluently. And we forget the hard ones as we age, mostly.
Yes, many of the Korean words are made from classical Chinese, but they are almost always written down by the Korean alphabet Hangeul. It would be practical to know some classical Chinese in order to guess the meaning of some unfamiliar Korean words but otherwise, it’s simply unpractical when Korean alphabet exists.
我是韓國人。答案幾乎是否定的。
從小學到高中，很多時候我們都有文言文課，雖然比如，每周一小時。我們只知道一些基本的漢字，在日常生活中的某些情況下或閱讀報紙時，不了解基本漢字可能會成為一個缺陷。
但是，不，這并不意味著我們可以閱讀幾乎所有的東西，也不意味著我們可以流利地一次性閱讀完整的句子。隨著年齡的增長，我們通常會忘記那些比較難的漢字。
是的，很多韓語單詞都是從文言文中來的，但它們幾乎都是用韓語字母諺文書寫的。為了猜測一些不熟悉的韓語單詞的意思，了解一些文言文是可行的，但如果有韓語字母存在的話，讀懂文言文是不現實的。